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Forum Index => Heating & Air Conditioning Repair (HVAC) => Topic started by: StevePilot on May 14, 2009, 09:05:24 AM

Title: Copeland Scroll HVAC Pump Installation Help Questions:
Post by: StevePilot on May 14, 2009, 09:05:24 AM
Greetings all! I found you in a Google search and was directed to the following link: (Open new window so you can read both).

http://appliancejunk.com/forums/index.php?topic=3751.0;prev_next=prev#new

I am NOT an HVAC man, but I have to do this installation myself.

In the thread above, there is mention that R-22 is being phased out. I can't afford to stockpile any, but do you expect there will be a shortage? (I'd hate to fix this problem only to have to replace everything in a year!)

Also, given that it takes just 2 soldering connections to install, (The company who installed the entire NEW system only 7 years ago, charged me $100.00 to tell me that "Well, it's broke!" I already KNEW that! Now they want over $1,400.00 to install the new pump. Due to my disatrous financial situation, I cannot afford that!

Will I loose the refrigerant when I change the pump out? If so, I can alway ask them to come by and re-fill it.

Is there anything special I should know about this seemeingly easy installation? I can solder copper water pipes, and this looks just like that is all I willl need to do to install it, 2 pipes and 4 base-bolts.

Also, I have found you all a better price than was mentioned at the other site...

Please visit: (I think it's a few bucks cheaper).

http://www.home-ac.com/products/Copeland_Scroll_3_ton_Compressor-190-0.html

Any and all advise will be GREATLY appreciated! I am just recovering from (very expensive) surgery and can now finally fix the dang thing.

Copeland Scroll zr36KC-PFV-230
 

Title: Re: Copeland Scroll HVAC Pump Installation Help Questions:
Post by: jumptrout51 on May 14, 2009, 11:32:23 AM
Your plumbing solder and torch will not braze the refrigerant tubing so that it will hold.
Acetylene torch and silver solder is needed.
You could push the refrigerant into the air handler and seal it off. You would still have to have access to a vacuum pump to evacuate the condenser side after the repair.
You should also install a filter drier on the high side line inside the condenser. Two more welds.
Title: Re: Copeland Scroll HVAC Pump Installation Help Questions:
Post by: StevePilot on May 14, 2009, 11:57:43 AM
Wow! Well, so much for me doing it! I have buddies who are in HVAC....Maybe they can gie me a break.

Thanks for the heads-up! Especially aboout the filter drier on the high side line inside the condenser.

I'm wondering if it was a defective model to begin with.

I mean, only 7 years of service? C'mon! At 50 years old, and in construction for  25 of that, I have never had an HVAC problem! Even a house bought in 1964...didn't need the exterior unit replacement until 2002!

Thanks again for the great help!

~ Steve
Title: Re: Copeland Scroll HVAC Pump Installation Help Questions:
Post by: jumptrout51 on May 14, 2009, 12:05:58 PM
Disregard the part about pushing the refrigerant into the airhandler. If you compressor is dead that won't work.
The refrigerant will have to be recovered.
What brand is this equipment?
Title: Re: Copeland Scroll HVAC Pump Installation Help Questions:
Post by: StevePilot on May 14, 2009, 12:14:47 PM
It's a Copeland Scroll Pump in a Ruud Model UPKA-035JAZ exterior "box."

 :P
Title: Re: Copeland Scroll HVAC Pump Installation Help Questions:
Post by: JWWebster on May 14, 2009, 06:29:29 PM
You need to recover the freon in the system. You could buy a 500 recovery pump OR you could get an old freon jug and put in 5 gallon bucket filled with ice. The freon will be drawn back into the jug by the ice.Then you can remove the copper pipes. If you ain't gotta oxy acetyline rig a  torch with mapp gas type nozzle and some mapp gas will work.
Title: Re: Copeland Scroll HVAC Pump Installation Help Questions:
Post by: Icehouse on May 14, 2009, 07:13:35 PM
Do you have an EPA 608 Certification ?
EPA requires all systems to be evacuated to 500 microns. Do you have a micron gauge ?
Was this a burn out ? You'll need to flush the system. Do you have flush ?
You will also need a "clean up" drier on the suction line.
This system uses a "fixed orifice tube metering device" which may be clogged. Do you know how to replace it ?
There is a lot to learn in HVAC repair so maybe now you know why it costs what it does. We are not "glorified grease monkey's" rather highly trained Professionals.
Title: Re: Copeland Scroll HVAC Pump Installation Help Questions:
Post by: JWWebster on May 14, 2009, 08:49:48 PM
You could use dry nitrogen to flush the system. But icehouse is right. there are a lot of factors involved.
Go for it. hell we can coach ya along.
Title: Re: Copeland Scroll HVAC Pump Installation Help Questions:
Post by: StevePilot on May 15, 2009, 05:36:59 AM
Thanks for all the input folks.

To the poster who asked:

"Do you have an EPA 608 Certification ? My licensed friends do.
EPA requires all systems to be evacuated to 500 microns. Do you have a micron gauge ? My licensed friends do.


As I said, it is more complicated than what I originally  thought or was hoping.

That is why I suggested using my HVAC qualified friends.

I never suggested anyone is a ""glorified grease monkey'" rather, I KNOW you (well, some of you), are highly trained Professionals.

However, i am sick of being ripped off by these people, (as well as other contractors), and thus do anything I can myself. As I said, I called to get a serviceman out (the entire thing is still under a service contract, being  relatively new), and got raped for another $100.00 to tell me that which I already knew....It's BROKE! All the 2 kids could say was "wait 'till it totally breaks and replace it". Sure! DUH!  It sounds like an F-18 at half throttle with a bad turbine in one engine.

Thanks for helpful the advice from the rest of you.

I guess I should not have asked any questions here. It's like me, aside from being a contractor, but also a pilot, trying to explain something as simple as VOR/ OBS/CDI navigation to a flgiht student.

Everyone has one or more highly trained areas of occupation. That is why I was asking questions....to be sure i actually need an HVAC buddie's help, rather than just not bother them and do it myself. I sure as hell won't use the incompetent "highly trained professionals" (thieves) who did the innitital installation or the last "service" call.

Have a great one!
Title: Re: Copeland Scroll HVAC Pump Installation Help Questions:
Post by: Icehouse on May 15, 2009, 06:45:03 AM
First I was not implying that you called us a bunch of grease monkeys, that was a generalization.
Second I do not like when technicians rip people off as this gives the whole industry a bad name.
As far as the "Technician" who said yeah it's broke is now why we have certifications, unfortunately they are voluntary.
Paying for service when protected by a service contract makes about as much sense as I don't know what.
Title: Re: Copeland Scroll HVAC Pump Installation Help Questions:
Post by: StevePilot on May 15, 2009, 06:58:17 AM
Charged $100.00 because the Copeland junk only has a 1 year warranty. Made in China like everything else, no doubt.

Title: Re: Copeland Scroll HVAC Pump Installation Help Questions:
Post by: AJ on May 15, 2009, 07:39:38 AM
Hi StevePilot

Welcome to the forum.

Quote
I guess I should not have asked any questions here.

Feel free to ask all the questions you want. That's what were here for.

Thanks,

Title: Re: Copeland Scroll HVAC Pump Installation Help Questions:
Post by: Icehouse on May 15, 2009, 08:45:14 AM
Charged $100.00 because the Copeland junk only has a 1 year warranty. Made in China like everything else, no doubt.


Point of information. Compressors in Condensing units carry a five year warranty. Replacement compressor has a one year with an optional four year coverage pro rated. R410 A systems with 13 seer have a ten year warranty.  :)
Title: Re: Copeland Scroll HVAC Pump Installation Help Questions:
Post by: jumptrout51 on May 15, 2009, 09:05:38 AM
1.What high side low side pressures is the compressor running?
2. Some compressor noises can be remedied with isolation pads installed.
3. You might try evacuating the system check the orifuce for an obstruction and recharge.
4. Do a acid test to see if the system is contaminated.
Title: Re: Copeland Scroll HVAC Pump Installation Help Questions:
Post by: Icehouse on May 15, 2009, 09:19:24 AM
From HVACRInfo site on scroll compressors:
Loud, very loud, relief sound coming from the compressor.

Some model scrolls have an internal pressure relief (IPR) valve. This valve opens at a discharge to suction differential of 375 to 450 psi (R-22) or 550 to 625 psi (R-410A). Check for restrictions in the discharge line, overcharge of refrigerant or a faulty component.

I think what you need is someone who knows what they are doing. Not "Bevis and Butthead".  O0
Title: Re: Copeland Scroll HVAC Pump Installation Help Questions:
Post by: JWWebster on May 15, 2009, 10:07:34 AM
If the unit is still operating but noisy have you tried adding compressor oil?