Author Topic: SubZero 590  (Read 4217 times)

Offline Ol' Lonely

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Re: SubZero 590
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2012, 07:11:35 AM »
Wow, talk about poor customer service.

"Depend on us."

Offline OCnStiggs

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Re: SubZero 590
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2012, 07:22:04 AM »
Here was my response:

Obviously you are a "manual seller," not a technician. Here is what I want in a manual. The manual portion in bold. The italicized portion is what I want to see.

As specified in the Sub Zero 500 Series manual under Refrigerator Controls- Model 590:

1. Remove the water tank cover.

Perfect. Nice arrow to show removal direction. Just what you want in a manual.

2. Remove the mounting screw on the backside of the control panel, then remove the control assembly.

Hmmmm... There are three mounting screws for the assembly. There is ONE shroud screw but you cannot get to this screw easily until you accomplish the next step. I remove the three mounting screws out of specified order to get at the shroud screw.

3. Remove the three panel screws.


OK ... now I can get to the panel screw. I remove it and the panel shroud is still firmly affixed to the control assembly. I want to get to the thermostat for the fridge. YOU CANNOT GAIN ACCESS TO THE PART FOR REMOVAL WITHOUT REMOVING THIS SHROUD. How do I remove the shroud without breaking it because the shroud is still firmly attached to the assembly. Do I peel off the front control shroud to find en exterior screw? One has to be very careful with the thermostat assembly while removing/examining it because three thermocouples extend from this module and kinking any one of them would render it inoperative. After carefully examining all sides (30 minutes) I discover the shroud SNAPS OFF the thermostat assembly to the front, allowing access to the individual thermostat controls. THIS IS CRITICAL INFORMATION THAT SHOULD BE IN THE SERVICE MANUAL. I am not even a service tech! The reason I am doing this procedure is because the EXPERT from the appliance company who previously serviced the unit could not figure out why the unit couldn't maintain temperature -EVEN after I showed him the thermostat would only trigger operation at 9 and wouldn't shut off until 1 on the dial!

Unless you work on SubZero 590s daily, you need to have these specific instructions detailed because they are CRITICAL in getting the unit disassembled so that no damage is done. This manual has the removal process in the incorrect order and leaves out critical details on how to gain access to the part that needs to be replaced. That is what I expect in a service manual. There are no suggestions at this point on how to go from Step 3 above, to Step 4 below. NONE. I ended up gaining access through careful deliberation and reverse engineering -and a boatload of trial and error. The manual in this specific case only got the water tank cover off for me. The rest was up to me. THAT IS UNACCEPTABLE IN A SERVICE MANUAL.

4. Remove the control panel dials, then remove the control (fig 2-62 & 2-63) by unscrewing the mounting screws.


NOTE: Complete dual control instructions accompany replacement refrigerator control.

And, in another piece of technical service manual brilliance, the service instructions provided with the control part only offer 5 steps...

1. Remove interior shelves and back cold plate cover.


It would be nice to know that the cold plate back cover is only held in by the one screw to the left of the panel. However, to remove the panel, you must remove the light cover at the ceiling of the fridge, then remove the fan shroud in order to lift the cold plate back cover vertically to pull the right lower edge off a plastic positioning pin. Failure to do so may result in damaging the panel or shearing this pin. HOW MUCH TIME WOULD A SERVICE TECHNICIAN WASTE FIGURING THIS OUT LIKE I DID? These are CRITICAL steps omitted by whomever wrote this poor manual.

2. Remove current refrigerator control.

Sweet! Sounds pretty easy but by referencing the 500 Series Service Manual we find unmentioned steps and incorrect order for the disassembly process. THAT is what a manual SHOULD provide. The previous two steps are the COMPLETE INSTRUCTIONS mentioned in the 590 Service Manual. Really? They must have been written by the same person at 4:45 on a Friday afternoon! Would these two steps help you remove a thermostat control on a unit you had never serviced? Honestly?

3. Reinstall all shelves and cold plate cover.
4. Set control to 7 and instruct customer to rest to 6 if product freezes.
5. Reconnect power to unit and check operation.


Clearly, Sub Zero does not write instructions that are sufficiently detailed. That is their prerogative.

What is your prerogative is threatening me simply for posting my experience with your company. Your words speak far more clearly than any I could speak myself. I have taken the time to make sure you understand clearly what I expect in a service manual, one I discovered is identical to the one you charged me for. It remains to be seen whether you will do the right thing and refund my purchase price because you led me to believe you had a different manual than the one I had already purchased.

It's your choice...

Offline jumptrout51

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Re: SubZero 590
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2012, 07:51:16 AM »
In defense of any Service Manual,they are designed to be used by service technicians that already have at least a basic knowledge of what they are working on.
As with many service manuals that cover more than one model you may have to read instructions from models other than the unit you are repairing to get the information you state is not in the 590 section.
All service manuals are printed by the manufacturer of the product and I have found over the years there are mistakes in some of the manuals. If you really want a manual that is hard to interpret and follow,pick one of the foreign brands that have been revised to English language.
The manual services have considerable expense in maintaining the sites including many hours of research to secure the manuals.
They in fact provided you with the ONLY manual available for this model.
They had no way of knowing you already had it or that it did not answer a specific question.
To reiterate...They are Technical manuals to be used by Technicians with a working knowledge of the product. They are not designed for DIY repairs.
One last note:::They should have said "libel" not "slander".
Take a Kid fishing.

Offline Ol' Lonely

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Re: SubZero 590
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2012, 08:00:30 AM »
What jumptrout51 said is true and would have been a better response to a unhappy customer then what OCnStiggs has received so far.
"Depend on us."

Offline OCnStiggs

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Re: SubZero 590
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2012, 08:38:05 AM »
Technicians evidently don't bother to refer to their manuals because the manuals are so poor. As was exemplified by my detailed response to the service manual customer service technician -from the 590 manual and parts section, the key details on removal and access to the thermostat are woefully inadequate. How many thermo shrouds get broken and charged back to the customer? How many cooler panels get bent? How many service companies provide service to only one brand and model?

The example of the failure to mention the necessary steps for removal of the cooling shroud are precisely what technical service manuals are supposed to avoid: Extended delays in figuring out how to do a service procedure -and how to do so without damaging the unit being serviced. I removed and replaced my thermostat without doing any damage to the existing structure, or the new part. The manual provided me with only a very broad assembly procedural plan, and very few details. But, evidently that is the nature of the beast.

The SubZero-specific Technician sent out by my major appliance company was unable to diagnose a failing thermostat. Am I to assume that he is able to correctly and successfully gain access to, and disassemble the thermostat shroud assembly and extricate the thermostat and replace it with a new one -all without reference to a service manual? What SubZero training has he received? I wager much of it is OJT. However, how many service calls today involve two service technicians? How does one get OJT?

What is peculiar is the response from the provider of the service manuals. I told them if they saw fit to deny my request for a refund, I would simply chronicle my experience with them on the DIY blog to warn others. Then they unload on me with threats of retaliation. That is the kind of customer service I'd like to help others avoid in the future.

Call me crazy but, I think this could have been handled much better. If I can help others avoid the same treatment, it's $16 well spent.

OC

Offline JWWebster

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Re: SubZero 590
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2012, 08:59:45 AM »
I would fire back this little ditty to that pee brain: The engineering on a sub zero is way more complicated than that of a normal ice box. Having a generic manual to cover all Sub Zeros is BoBo at best. Everyone I have seen is way over engineered.
May the hinges of our friendship
        never grow rusty.

About the icons: The beer is tip link, if a tech saves ya some money buy em a 6 pack. The small green square=personal message. The green dot is a link to my web page on appliance repair and other general BS I love to post. The letter sends me email.
I love fan letters! LOL

Offline jumptrout51

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Re: SubZero 590
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2012, 09:00:29 AM »
Your #3 complaint is in the manual.
As I stated you have to read the complete manual if unfamiliar with the product.
1. Remove the overhead light shield by grasping
the back edge of the shield and pulling forward
to release, then drop the front edge out of
the channel. (Figure 2-54).
Take a Kid fishing.

Offline OCnStiggs

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Re: SubZero 590
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2012, 04:23:43 PM »
Removing the light bezel will not release the panel. You must then remove the fan shroud.

Offline jumptrout51

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Re: SubZero 590
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2012, 05:30:45 PM »
Sir, I am not trying to be argumentative here. I assist on this forum at no charge to you and no pay for me. I have my own appliance repair business. Assisting here is an attempt to help DIY people such as yourself.
Having said that,we can only help so much in cyber-space. The Technical Sertvice manuals are designed for Appliance Technicians.
A statement in the manual you were provided says....INTRODUCTION
This manual has been prepared for your use in servicing
Sub-Zero 500 Series units. Included are
helpful facts on service, troubleshooting, specifications
and parts information.
It is important that you familiarize yourself with
the product as much as possible before initiating
any maintenance, troubleshooting or repairs.

Also in the same manual,if you begin on page 2-20 and read and understand the entire manual it explains the fan shroud removal as well as all other components to remove.
As I mentioned before about various models many steps to take are the same for every model.
Only when you get to some models there may be specific steps for that model only.
I have read and re-read your post several times and have referred to the manual regarding each complaint you have.
Every complaint from you is addressed in the manual with the exception of the technician that was sent to diagnose your problem.
I cannot account for his ability,inability or disability.
Had you posted your problem on this forum rather than asking for a Technical Service manual I feel very good that you would have gotten a correct diagnosis quickly.
Take a Kid fishing.

Offline JWWebster

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Re: SubZero 590
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2012, 05:55:19 PM »
What Jumpy said.
May the hinges of our friendship
        never grow rusty.

About the icons: The beer is tip link, if a tech saves ya some money buy em a 6 pack. The small green square=personal message. The green dot is a link to my web page on appliance repair and other general BS I love to post. The letter sends me email.
I love fan letters! LOL

Offline OCnStiggs

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Re: SubZero 590
« Reply #25 on: March 28, 2012, 07:10:50 PM »
Jumptrout51,

You guys have been great. Thanks for all your help.

OC

Offline jumptrout51

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Re: SubZero 590
« Reply #26 on: March 28, 2012, 07:28:30 PM »
Jumptrout51,

You guys have been great. Thanks for all your help.

OC
Please use this forum for diagnostic and repair help in the future.
I will refrain from participating in that help unless you are given a bad answer or direction.
In which case I can not help myself but to give correct information.
Have a a good day.
Take a Kid fishing.

 

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