Author Topic: Auxillary heat turns ON when the heat pump is providing heat  (Read 4560 times)

Offline JeanThomas

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Issue: It seems as if the auxillary heat turns ON when the heat pump is providing heat, should it be this way?

Current heat pump model number: TCH430AKA1 Sears (International Comfort Products)
Current thermostat model number: P274-0100 Totaline (Two for the two-zone system: 1 upstairs, 1 downstairs) tstat Zone 1 has G, Y1, R, W1 and C wired.  tstat Zone 2 has Y1, R, W1 and C wired.

Current fan coil (located indoors inside air handler)
Model number NFCX3600C1 Sears (International Comfort Products)

Current control box: Carrier Weathermaker II Two-Zone Comfort Zoning System (Model A9345 ?)  Control box has RC, O, Y1, W1, G and RH wired. RC is jumpered to RH.

Pictures: http://img291.imageshack.us/g/wiredcarriercontrolbox.jpg/

Control Box Documentation: http://www.docs.hvacpartners.com/idc/groups/public/documents/techlit/cepl-1si.pdf

I question the lack of W2 wired connections.
This is a 2-stage heat pump with typical fan coils/heat strips.
W2 controls the auxillary heat, I believe.

Are the current P274-0100 Totaline thermostats mis-matched or mis-wired?  

What would be a better thermostat that would allow for better control/monitoring of the auxillary heat activity(fan coils)?

Offline Icehouse

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Re: Auxillary heat turns ON when the heat pump is providing heat
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2011, 05:52:25 PM »
Is this a two-stge system ? The instructions distincly say W2 is only wired on two stage systems.
If you look the "Emergency Heat" is controled by a switch. Try replacing that.
NATE, NCCER, PHCC,HVAC Certified Instructor
Member RSES, US Army Refrigeration Specialist(Retired), Former Refrigeration Teacher NYC Board of Ed.
a tragedy has happen to me : http://web.me.com/zenzoidman/Bobice/

Offline JeanThomas

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Re: Auxillary heat turns ON when the heat pump is providing heat
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2011, 07:54:23 AM »
I guess the issue is "what exactly IS a 2-stage heat pump".

Since the heat pump has 1 reverser valve, it would have 1 stage for heat and 1 stage for cool.  I thought that the fan coils/heat strips were classified as 2nd stage heat.

It sure would be nice to have the documentation for the TCH430AKA1 ICP heat pump.  Does ICP keep their installation manuals in a secret vault ;D?  I can't find it anywhere.

Offline Icehouse

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Re: Auxillary heat turns ON when the heat pump is providing heat
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2011, 10:48:26 AM »
Definition of Two-Stage
 


If you have a two-stage heating system, your installation comes with a supplementary heating system to pump out hotter air in case the temperature of the room continues to decrease even after the main system fires up. This method works effectively in houses built in harshly cold environments. Two-stage heating systems come with two-stage thermostats that tell the system when to fire up the supplementary heating elements.

 
Using a Two-Stage System


Two-stage heating systems save you money because they use only the amount of heating power necessary to raise a zone's temperature to a target specified by the thermostat without unnecessarily bleeding out extra heat through the pump system. Only when temperatures continue dropping does the system call for the supplementary elements. In other words, a two-stage system calls for extra juice only when it needs it.

 
Effects
Just like a car reduces acceleration, heat pumps reduce power as they near their targets.
 
Two-stage stepping heat pump systems apply a higher heating capacity that overcomes the heat loss within a building. If a space of 300 cubic feet loses four degrees in heat per hour, the heat pump must compensate by pumping in more heat than the space loses. As the temperature approaches the target, some heating elements must turn off to reach a temperature just above the target temperature, much like a car must decrease its rate of acceleration as it approaches a desired speed.

 
Insulation


To reduce the amount of times a two-stage heat pump initiates the second stage, you may reap the benefits of an interior or exterior insulation system. Installing both gives you extra protection against heat loss in your building. If you have an HVAC unit installed in your house, you should not only isolate your walls but also isolate your attic and basement to prevent heat loss from above and below the house -- where it happens most frequently.

NATE, NCCER, PHCC,HVAC Certified Instructor
Member RSES, US Army Refrigeration Specialist(Retired), Former Refrigeration Teacher NYC Board of Ed.
a tragedy has happen to me : http://web.me.com/zenzoidman/Bobice/

Offline Icehouse

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Re: Auxillary heat turns ON when the heat pump is providing heat
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2011, 10:53:59 AM »
Definition of Two-Stage
 


If you have a two-stage heating system, your installation comes with a supplementary heating system to pump out hotter air in case the temperature of the room continues to decrease even after the main system fires up. This method works effectively in houses built in harshly cold environments. Two-stage heating systems come with two-stage thermostats that tell the system when to fire up the supplementary heating elements.

 
Using a Two-Stage System


Two-stage heating systems save you money because they use only the amount of heating power necessary to raise a zone's temperature to a target specified by the thermostat without unnecessarily bleeding out extra heat through the pump system. Only when temperatures continue dropping does the system call for the supplementary elements. In other words, a two-stage system calls for extra juice only when it needs it.

 
Effects
Just like a car reduces acceleration, heat pumps reduce power as they near their targets.
 
Two-stage stepping heat pump systems apply a higher heating capacity that overcomes the heat loss within a building. If a space of 300 cubic feet loses four degrees in heat per hour, the heat pump must compensate by pumping in more heat than the space loses. As the temperature approaches the target, some heating elements must turn off to reach a temperature just above the target temperature, much like a car must decrease its rate of acceleration as it approaches a desired speed.

 
Insulation


To reduce the amount of times a two-stage heat pump initiates the second stage, you may reap the benefits of an interior or exterior insulation system. Installing both gives you extra protection against heat loss in your building. If you have an HVAC unit installed in your house, you should not only isolate your walls but also isolate your attic and basement to prevent heat loss from above and below the house -- where it happens most frequently.


The above is courtesey of Wayne Shirley Heat Pump Guru for the Refrigeration Service Engineers Society.
NATE, NCCER, PHCC,HVAC Certified Instructor
Member RSES, US Army Refrigeration Specialist(Retired), Former Refrigeration Teacher NYC Board of Ed.
a tragedy has happen to me : http://web.me.com/zenzoidman/Bobice/

Offline Icehouse

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Re: Auxillary heat turns ON when the heat pump is providing heat
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2011, 11:12:18 AM »
 O0  O0 Good news your unit was made by "Tempstar Heating and Cooling"
I'm checking the web site now. Unfortunately only contractors can access this information so you'll have to depend on "Old Pop"  :rofl:  :rofl:
NATE, NCCER, PHCC,HVAC Certified Instructor
Member RSES, US Army Refrigeration Specialist(Retired), Former Refrigeration Teacher NYC Board of Ed.
a tragedy has happen to me : http://web.me.com/zenzoidman/Bobice/

Offline JWWebster

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Re: Auxillary heat turns ON when the heat pump is providing heat
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2011, 01:23:31 PM »
All right now Old Poppy  :2funny:
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 01:25:52 PM by JWWebster »
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        never grow rusty.

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Offline Icehouse

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Re: Auxillary heat turns ON when the heat pump is providing heat
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2011, 05:46:28 PM »
All right now Old Poppy  :2funny:
  Just because there is snow on the roof don't mean there is no fire in the furnace.   :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
NATE, NCCER, PHCC,HVAC Certified Instructor
Member RSES, US Army Refrigeration Specialist(Retired), Former Refrigeration Teacher NYC Board of Ed.
a tragedy has happen to me : http://web.me.com/zenzoidman/Bobice/

Offline Icehouse

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Re: Auxillary heat turns ON when the heat pump is providing heat
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2011, 11:44:38 AM »
 :D From what I can decifer
page 8 should help.  O0
http://icpindexing.mqgroup.com/documents/086477/42701100401.pdf
NATE, NCCER, PHCC,HVAC Certified Instructor
Member RSES, US Army Refrigeration Specialist(Retired), Former Refrigeration Teacher NYC Board of Ed.
a tragedy has happen to me : http://web.me.com/zenzoidman/Bobice/

 

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