Author Topic: HVAC Heater Intermintant Spark Pilot shutsdown Won't Mainburner Wont Stay/Cycles  (Read 6412 times)

Offline mdfudge

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Hi Techs,

OK, were do I start.

First.. I replaced the Draft Inducer Motor with complete Housing from Roton company in Canada.. Great complete product with wire connectors

and wire splicers/ also included the high temperature fiber gasket and RED RTV Hi Temp Silicon tube all for $135.00.  My model number for this

install was: Shipped: 1 FB-RFB68 FB-RFB68 Keeprite CUGE, CPGE, CULE, MGH Mid eff., 1006168P Flue.  From CSH Incorporated

CHS Incorporated

Have to put them out.. great company.

Install went great.  Looked over everything else and blew out the dust that had been collected since it was open for awhile since summer.

This is just a HVAC Heater no split.  Plugged it in.. call for heat @80F.  Draft blower came on did its thing and vacuum safety switch

engaged, completed its circuit.. ignition control module started Intermintant Spark Pilot.. pilot came on for a brief second main burner (MV)

was hot 24 volts but gas was very little coming out or non at all at the main burners??  RE-Cycle all over again.

I have added a movie so you can see what is going on.. to help my diagnose this furnace for me.  I appreciate everyone's input on this

because I'm not sure that it maybe missing a part like a flame sensor.. couldn't see one or if there was a spot on the control module for it..

if you look closely at the pic.. you will see that there is only a ground, pilot gas line and Spark rod with orange rubber insulation.  I'm thinking

to myself that it needs a Milli volt Flame sensor there is gas to the house and other appliances.. I didn't check to see how much pressure the

gas is coming in from the shut-off valve before the flex hose to main valve.  But I'm sure its ok..  Could it be A) missing flame sensor b) the

old 1989 Honeywell Gas Valve clogged up or broken from non use for a number of years.  Or C) the Control Module.. last I looked it was over

$200 dollars.. Yikes.   Also.. what is the method of operation of the Intermittent Spark Pilot is it supposed to turn off or keep cycling like

that?  Thanks GUYS, you helped me out before.. Here My Battle Cry!!!



Here is the Video.  NOTE: Both links for same video.. choose one, you need to watch this.. very important!

Central Furnances, Inc. 867.708280

View My Video

http://www.sendspace.com/file/5wtw7m

Some PICS, hope these come out image server was slow and I hope these are not too many pics for this site.. but here you go, Enjoy!


















SLIDE SHOW IF YOU LIKE
http://img801.imageshack.us/slideshow/player.php?id=img801/4306/1292832871lft.smil


Offline mdfudge

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  • Member Since: Mar 2010
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NOTE:

I just realized that the Intermittent Spart Pilot has a built in flame sensor....

I haven't pulled that out.. but do you think that cleaning the spark/probe sensor would do the trick..

or should I just get a new one locally at Johnstone Supply HVAC Distributors.


Offline jumptrout51

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Would like a good well lighted picture of the venturi burners especially the corners.
There is usually a flame sensor in the corners.
The gas pressure needs to be verified with a manometer.
Do you have a shot of the wiring diagram?
Take a Kid fishing.

Offline JWWebster

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I had to take a soft tooth brush to my orifices last summer after I had found my draft inducer full of water! The ac drain was plugged and filling the heater with water. Take a new dry brillo pad and clean that flame sensor. remove all them wires to the spark box and check for corrosion. Get a good ground to the burners or that box won't recognize flame and shut down.
If it still has intermittent pilot add a Re-ignitor to the pilot.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2010, 10:50:09 AM by JWWebster »
May the hinges of our friendship
        never grow rusty.

About the icons: The beer is tip link, if a tech saves ya some money buy em a 6 pack. The small green square=personal message. The green dot is a link to my web page on appliance repair and other general BS I love to post. The letter sends me email.
I love fan letters! LOL

Offline Icehouse

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    • hvacbob
NATE, NCCER, PHCC,HVAC Certified Instructor
Member RSES, US Army Refrigeration Specialist(Retired), Former Refrigeration Teacher NYC Board of Ed.
a tragedy has happen to me : http://web.me.com/zenzoidman/Bobice/

Offline mdfudge

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  • Member Since: Mar 2010
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OK,

I'm heading down there now to clean out and remove/replace module assembly to see if its a possible ground

or dirty flame/spark sensor.  GAS company was there.. but I think it was a young kid that checked it out.. he didn't even

crack open any lines.  What happen to the old dudes coming out and going over everything??  and given you a diagnosis.. I

remember those days when I was a kid.

Anyway.. not to drag this on.. but If all else fail I'm gonna just install a Honeywell S8610U3009 Universal Intermittent Pilot Control

Module, GAS Valve works fine.

If the Above works out,  I have BEER Money in hand!   

Thanks for everyone else posting and that Sequence of operation diagram was very helpful too!  Thanks again.. Will Post with Final

Resolve hopefully soon and get it working right.

Offline Icehouse

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    • hvacbob
NATE, NCCER, PHCC,HVAC Certified Instructor
Member RSES, US Army Refrigeration Specialist(Retired), Former Refrigeration Teacher NYC Board of Ed.
a tragedy has happen to me : http://web.me.com/zenzoidman/Bobice/

Offline JWWebster

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A friend of mine told me about this same spark box he had. He is a TV man. He removed the cover and soldered the GND terminal inside that had worked itself loose. Later I found out a lot of these had a similar prob. So before ya spend any big money play around with these suggestions.
May the hinges of our friendship
        never grow rusty.

About the icons: The beer is tip link, if a tech saves ya some money buy em a 6 pack. The small green square=personal message. The green dot is a link to my web page on appliance repair and other general BS I love to post. The letter sends me email.
I love fan letters! LOL

Offline Icehouse

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  • Member Since: Oct 2008
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    • hvacbob
NATE, NCCER, PHCC,HVAC Certified Instructor
Member RSES, US Army Refrigeration Specialist(Retired), Former Refrigeration Teacher NYC Board of Ed.
a tragedy has happen to me : http://web.me.com/zenzoidman/Bobice/

Offline mdfudge

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  • Member Since: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 10
I had to take a soft tooth brush to my orifices last summer after I had found my draft inducer full of water! The ac drain was plugged and filling the heater with water. Take a new dry brillo pad and clean that flame sensor. remove all them wires to the spark box and check for corrosion. Get a good ground to the burners or that box won't recognize flame and shut down.
If it still has intermittent pilot add a Re-ignitor to the pilot.


### SUCCESS WE HAVE IGNITION /LITE MAIN BURNERS!  ###### SOLUTION #######

Hi Techs,

I went over there.. they made me some breakfast coffee.. raining like cats dogs outside... cold inside the whole house.. to my knowledge
this furnace has been sitting for years! without ever being fired up.  But its would have fired anyways. 

I took out the pilot line and pilot burner/igniter-sensor, didn't look too bad but was light brown burned color.  The igniter-sensor probe
made out of tungsten or other hard metal was covered in it too.  I took a fine emmery cloth to it and polished up the whole assembly
just as good as new.  Even where the orange spark plug boot goes to.  I cleaned up the part that it attaches to the burner assembly
and screwed it back on put the pilot line back on the Main valve assembly.   I removed the Ignition Module just like JWWebster told me to
do and removed all wires and re-installed the box.  NOTE: working with (millivolts) and not having a SOLID Ground will get you no where!
I know this by experience working on cars and their sensors not working right.

Everything set to go.  RE-checked wires roll outs and sequencing.  Pushed safety switch lockout and ignition! Pilot is lit.. Main Burners ON
system is stabilized main blower on after furnace plenum temp rise good to go!   Temperature was stable with continuous burn in furnace.

Looks like we fixed it.

I would like to thank everyone who helped me on this project. Those schematics and manuals for valves, modules came in handy.

Customer is more than satisfied has a smile from ear to ear.. hands me an early Xmas present in my hand. (note: it was green too)

All I care is that the furnace is working and they are happy but the extra bonus was a plus for me.

My Background is Radio communications/electronics, Hold Extra Class License.  Electrician by trade when I was younger, Computer Technology
major with MS Certifications Current job functions IT/Windows servers.  I have plenty of skills to fall back on but computers is my favorite.  I
enjoy countless hours working with my hands and its something I have a passion for.  HVAC was a trade my father told me to get into when I
was younger but never finished the classes.  I kick myself in the head for not following through with that.  But nonetheless, I can still get
these monsters up and running.. and not without your help.

Thanks again.. you are all so knowledgeable
-MDFUDGE

Offline JWWebster

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Thanks  :santa_afro: :cheers: :pint1: :santa_cheesy:
May the hinges of our friendship
        never grow rusty.

About the icons: The beer is tip link, if a tech saves ya some money buy em a 6 pack. The small green square=personal message. The green dot is a link to my web page on appliance repair and other general BS I love to post. The letter sends me email.
I love fan letters! LOL

Offline JWWebster

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    • Buy me a beer through paypal
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Don't fergit about Bobby the iceman and Jumpy.  O0
Note ta self. Check if Bobby is a tea totaler.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 07:44:24 PM by JWWebster »
May the hinges of our friendship
        never grow rusty.

About the icons: The beer is tip link, if a tech saves ya some money buy em a 6 pack. The small green square=personal message. The green dot is a link to my web page on appliance repair and other general BS I love to post. The letter sends me email.
I love fan letters! LOL

Offline Icehouse

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  • Member Since: Oct 2008
  • Posts: 566
    • hvacbob
Don't fergit about Bobby the iceman and Jumpy.  O0
Note ta self. Check if Bobby is a tea totaler.
[/quote ]

Gave up smoking and drinking same day. That was 31 years ago.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2010, 08:33:28 PM by Icehouse »
NATE, NCCER, PHCC,HVAC Certified Instructor
Member RSES, US Army Refrigeration Specialist(Retired), Former Refrigeration Teacher NYC Board of Ed.
a tragedy has happen to me : http://web.me.com/zenzoidman/Bobice/

Offline JWWebster

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Well I personally gave up cigs and beer myself on Aug 5, 1988 fer 7 years on a bet.
It did a world of good fer me.
May the hinges of our friendship
        never grow rusty.

About the icons: The beer is tip link, if a tech saves ya some money buy em a 6 pack. The small green square=personal message. The green dot is a link to my web page on appliance repair and other general BS I love to post. The letter sends me email.
I love fan letters! LOL

Offline mdfudge

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  • Member Since: Mar 2010
  • Posts: 10
A friend of mine told me about this same spark box he had. He is a TV man. He removed the cover and soldered the GND terminal inside that had worked itself loose. Later I found out a lot of these had a similar prob. So before ya spend any big money play around with these suggestions.

Guess what..

The Furnace stopped working at exactly 10:00PM PST Yesterday.  So I get a call in the morning.. saying we need heat.. its doing the same
thing again trying to re-light and cycling over and over.

GREAT!

Well I went over there with my Soldering Iron and some electronic silver solder.  Having a background in electronics.. I decided to take
JWWebster advice which didn't hurt to look at and try.   I removed the Honeywell module and took it apart (PICTURES) and found a bad
solder joint.   It was the one connected to one of the relays.. traced it back to the PV/MV Relay.  Soldered that as well as all the key
points including the ground. Re-installed the ignition module and wires.. put an extra ground to the chassis so this time for sure it will
be solid.  Worked great.. fired right up again.  Better than new being that its OE and all solder joints on board have been re-soldered.
Spark was even better than before.. so ya!  Thank you again for suggesting that Webster (YOU THE MAN).

Hopefully with enough of these fixes.. I can become a Tech on the forums too.  (High Hopes)

Don't you guys just love these pics  O0






 

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