Pumps in American Dishwashers

[Juan]

Hi,

I live in Denmark and am doing a resarch in pumps in dishwashers. From what I read, most European dishwasher use a drain and a wash pump. Does someone know how it works in the US? Is it a pump for both functions or is it the same as in Europe?

Pancho

[JWWebster]

Some U.S. models have a reversing motor to pump and wash and others use a one directional motor and have a solenoid activated dump flap to release the water.
Some high end models do have 2 pumps but in my opinion that just means more can go wrong.

[Juan]

I have been checking at some Frigidaire's and Whirlpool's diagrams and all of them have 2 pumps. Do you know any brand using 1 pump?

[JWWebster]

GE pot scrubber has the SideWinder one directional motor with dump flap

[Juan]

You are right...I am a little bit confused now.I need to estimate in percentage how much does the 1 pump and 2 pumps dishwashers represent in the American market.

Do you have any estimate about this? I know that in Europe is about 90% 2 pumps and 10% 1 pump. What percentage do you estimate for the US?

[JWWebster]

I hate dish washers and avoid them like the plague. The 2 best sellers are the whirlpool drop in motor and pump and the Ge drop in motor and pump. In these units you yank out the motor and pump and replace em. Nothing to it. 2 pump DWs
 I don't know from. I have manuals but like I said, if you are rich enough to own a dw you gonna chunk it and buy another cheap one or swap the motor and pump and avoid electronics. I am old school though. Anybody else can chime in anytime.

[Dave from dyer]

I hate dish washers and avoid them like the plague. The 2 best sellers are the whirlpool drop in motor and pump and the Ge drop in motor and pump. In these units you yank out the motor and pump and replace em. Nothing to it. 2 pump DWs
 I don't know from. I have manuals but like I said, if you are rich enough to own a dw you gonna chunk it and buy another cheap one or swap the motor and pump and avoid electronics. I am old school though. Anybody else can chime in anytime.

Well...
I have a 299 dollar whirlpool and I am hardly "rich". I would estimate about 90% of my customers have a dishwasher. And if you spent $1900 on a Miele, even if you were rich you would get it fixed.
Most all unit have electronics now because of energy star ratings and most have a separate pump for drain, the bidirectional units use more energy. I would estimate 75% of dishwashers now have a separate drain pump.  Just a guess. I have been fixing them for over 20 years and rather enjoy it.
They are getting junkier though, and even the expensive ones break, and often,  hence my $299 Lowe's special.     Just my 2 cents.
Dave

[Juan]

Thats perfect!

Do you know which of the two pumps breaks down more often?Out of 10 dishwashers you repair how many are due to the drain pump and how many to the wash pump?

Which are repaired more often?1 pump or 2 pumps dishwashers?

Thank you!!

[Dave from dyer]

It really depends on the brand, however, I myself rarely replace a separate-type drain pump in any dishwasher, other guys I talk to say they replace alot. Our water is really, really good here (Lake Michigan) and that may be a factor, I think. Most problems with motors are wash motors.

Dave

[sapp4l]

Juan:
I am hardly an expert, but I've had (and serviced) both a 1 pump GE model (cirica 1993) and a much newer Frigidaire (aka Electrolux --  European company) with 2 pumps. The newer model was not 'top of the line' -- I think cost was like $350 to $400. The design is quite simple with 2 pumps, and avoids solenoids and flaps that the GE model had. I had to replace the expensive pump/motor assembly on the GE (about $120 as I recall) due to a motor failure. I did have to unstick an impeller on the Frigidaire (the drain pump, not the wash pump) as a piece of glass was caught in the impeller -- but didn't break the pump (cheap fix -- just my labor -- and I'm cheap).

I don't know share of market for the 2 designs, but looking at the parts, I don't think the 2 pump is more expensive than the 1 pump. The cost of a small pump motor isn't a lot, and simplifies the mechanicals a lot.

I don't know who else uses the different design approaches -- if you knew this, you could probably infer market share as most of the models share most of the basic wash components among the product family.

[Juan]

Hi!

Thank you guys for your help!

I have checked the following link:

http://www.repairclinic.com/Dishwasher-How-Things-Work

It says that most American dishwashers use 1 pump. Does this mean that the trend will also be 1 pump? What do you think the trend has been over the years?Have companies switched from 2 to 1 pump or viceversa?

This article confuses me a little bit...

Juan

[Juan]

any clue about this article...

[Repair-man]

Here is the way it has been historically. American dishwashers were originally made with one motor/pump assembly which both washed and drained the unit. This was true all the way past 1990 on most brands. They contained a reversing motor.

Only GE made a one-piece assembly and still does, but the motor does not reverse on these.. (wd26x10013 for example)

Most all of the new models made after 1998 by other manufacturers now have a separate electric drain pump which is not part of the wash motor. Non-reversing motors are cheaper to make, hence the change. The drain pumps on new models are quite small and just strong enough to pump water out while saving a lot of energy in the process versus using the main motor.