Author Topic: Maytag T/l NEPTUNE  (Read 12177 times)

Offline dh1200s

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Re: Maytag T/l NEPTUNE
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2009, 07:06:19 PM »
If the Pic attachment comes through the green lead is on Control Boad common for +12VDC measurements.

Offline gkofc

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Re: Maytag T/l NEPTUNE
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2009, 07:58:02 PM »
Just read your post Rich.I'll try that path tomorrow.Thanks alot buddy.

Offline dh1200s

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Re: Maytag T/l NEPTUNE
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2009, 08:30:06 PM »
Some pics of my attempt to document the Ledt Hand Lid Lock and Conn_P3 and some corrision issues you may find with the left lid lock.  I disconnect the right lid lock and throw it away if it ever fails.  The left lid lock is the important one with it's dual signaling function.  i use WD-40 and emery nail file boards to clean up the pins and a quick shot into the plug end.   Good luck....Rich


Offline dh1200s

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Re: Maytag T/l NEPTUNE
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2009, 08:31:59 PM »
Pin out info for Conn_P3

Offline dh1200s

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Re: Maytag T/l NEPTUNE
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2009, 08:39:52 PM »
The P1 thru P6 labels on the Ledt Hand Lid Lock are for my reference they do not correlate to the schematic.

Offline JWWebster

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Re: Maytag T/l NEPTUNE
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2009, 10:11:15 PM »
good pics Rich
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        never grow rusty.

About the icons: The beer is tip link, if a tech saves ya some money buy em a 6 pack. The small green square=personal message. The green dot is a link to my web page on appliance repair and other general BS I love to post. The letter sends me email.
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Offline dh1200s

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Re: Maytag T/l NEPTUNE
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2009, 05:26:19 AM »
JWWebster thank you, 

I'm and owner/DIY'er that just can't keep his hands off the machine. 

I have a series of pic's and service repair notes on Clutch issues with this machine,  Sticky/Rusted up One-Way Roller Clutches in the clutch pulley are a real killer for the FAV6800AW/FAV9800AW machines.  Clutch issues and the Left Hand Lid Lock corrosion issues send many of these machines to an early grave. Once you get some basic hands on with this machine I find it very easy to work on and diagnose service issues   The ebay win was a series 17.  It looked like it just came from Home Depot yesterday with the exception of a dent in the front cover.  The machine was failing with dC/uC errors in spin cycle a very common problem.  It took 15 minutes to drop the clutch out re-lube the One-Way roller clutches with some WD-40 and itís back in service.  It's going to be moved into the laundry room as the primary machine and the original series 16 will become my test bed machine.  I know the outer tub bearings will need to be replaced down the road in that machine.  Thatís a weak knowledge area of mine.

Pic's of my work bench, getting to old to bend over.

Clutch inspection of the large wrap spring, I can tell this machine was
not used very much.

Inspection of those pesky One-Way Roller clutches they were clean but would not lock up in the CCW direction.  Couple of squrits of WD-40 and we are good to go, no more dC/uC errors.

Great forum I hope I can contribute to at least FAV6800A/FAV9800A issues.

Offline JWWebster

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Re: Maytag T/l NEPTUNE
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2009, 08:22:16 PM »
I ain't worked on one of these machines. Would you say it is fairly easy to mess with? Looks like you gotta remove the tub and invert it to work on that clutch assembly. Does that thing have a solenoid activated inner tub/agitator release like the newer GEs? Did you say you had a manual to this baby? I would love to read that.
May the hinges of our friendship
        never grow rusty.

About the icons: The beer is tip link, if a tech saves ya some money buy em a 6 pack. The small green square=personal message. The green dot is a link to my web page on appliance repair and other general BS I love to post. The letter sends me email.
I love fan letters! LOL

Offline dh1200s

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Re: Maytag T/l NEPTUNE
« Reply #23 on: November 26, 2009, 07:26:37 AM »
Good morning JWW,

I donít think Iím hijacking the thread I have all ready given a heads up to gkofc on future issues with the machine that I feel are easy repairs once armed with some knowledge.  I started working on the machine last December when I took my first dC/uC unbalance errors at the 3.5yr mark of ownership.  gkofc and others can use this process for his upcoming clutch malfunction.  I now use my bike lift for the process but can you just lay the machine down or tilted back to improve the reach angle.   

To drop the clutch out for maintenance/replacement Iím going to post the process I have put together for other forums.  Itís a bit more detailed then what you need itís geared to the DIYíer like me. 

16022808 Maytag Top Load Neptune Washer Service Repair Manual

The FAV6800AW/FAV9800AW Service Manual for reference.


At servicematters they have some technical bulletins about a new and improved clutch.   They make no comment about what the design changes are to make it improved,  I recommend this clutch for these machines. p/n 25001169
 
Here is my DIY step by step.  Make sure on reinstall of the clutch that it seats properly.

Raise the top of the machine. Insert a flat blade putty knife approximately 2.5Ē from the left and right sides of the washer top, depress the spring tabs securing machine top to the washer base. See page 33 of the SM for putty knife insertion point and page 41.

Tools required;
3/8 inch socket and socket wrench to remove clutch pulley bolt. Page 47 of the SM
1/2 inch socket or wrench to loosen Drive Motor tension bolt.
5/16 nut driver or 5/16 ľ socket on an extension to remove front panel see page 41 of the Service Manual

1. Lean the washer back and blocked up in that position against a wall for a better reach angle. Rotate 3/8Ē clutch Pulley Bolt CW to remove clutch bolt.

2. Follow SM page 46 & 47 to remove clutch pulley.

3. Remove 4 screws holding plastic cover on clutch, inspect clutch spring to make sure it is not broken. If either clutch spring retaining end is broken off then the clutch must be replaced. Inspect Roller Clutch bearings and clean up with WD-40 and re-lube with bearing grease.   Some machine series use an Upper Roller Clutch bearing and always a lower clutch pulley Roller Clutch bearing. My series 16 machine doesnít use the Upper Roller Clutch one way bearing. These bearings are one way rotation bearings in the Clockwise direction. Make sure the Spinner Shaft Coupler will rotate freely in the CW direction in both Roller Clutch bearings and lock up in the CCW direction. If the Roller Clutch bearings or Spinner Shaft Coupler will not clean up with WD-40 I recommend a clutch replacement.

4. Replace white bearing plate into clutch pulley hub, insure key slot slips into clutch Spring pin in the clutch hub.

5. Replace Clutch plastic cover with 4 screws.

6. Reinstalling the Clutch Pulley assembly is the most difficult part of the process.   With a tight work area try a test fitment of seating (if used) the Upper Clutch bearing with the notches into the bottom of the wash tub. Then insert the Spinner Shaft Coupler into that bearing rotating CW to reseat the coupler notches to the spinner shaft.   Then the clutch pulley to the squared end agitator shaft. Rock back and forth the clutch pulley assembly with upward lifting pressure to reseat the clutch assembly.   When the clutch assembly is properly seated you will feel a 1/16-1/8" gap between the Pulley face and shaft end as mentioned and shown on page 47 of the SM. On reinstallation, tighten Clutch Pulley bolt CCW to 96Ē pounds 8í foot pounds (Snug no torque wrench required).

7. Do a quick wash and make sure clutch runs true with no wobble or clicking sound. If the clutch has not been seated properly it will spin off. If this happens go to page 16 of the SM Board Output Test and turn on Drain Pump in Service Mode to pump out excess water.

8. Repeat steps 6&7 if the clutch has excessive noise or spins off.

I have picís with this process but will paste in if anyone feels it would be of value.  Helping the wife for turkey and trimmings prep so keeping it short.

The big test is to determine if the One-Way Roller Clutchs are locking up in the CCW direction when they donít you will get tumbler movement while the wash basket begins to spin up and if the TDS is working properly the machine will shut down. 

Insert what I call the Spinner Shaft Coupler (not sure if that is what it is called) into the One-Way Roller clutch plate like I show.

Then holding Spinner Shaft Coupler ends tightly with your fingers take the other free hand and rotate the white bearing plate CCW the Spin Cycle direction. The white bearing plate should not rotate in the CCW direction the One-Way Roller clutches should lock up solid.  When those One-Roller clutches do not lock up solid you get tumbler movement and big time dC/uC errors.  Now rotate the white bearing plate CW it should rotate freely around the coupler this is the agitator wash cycle direction and the agitator shaft would drive the tranny driving the tumblers.

Happy Thanksgiving to you and all on the forum....Rich

Offline dh1200s

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Re: Maytag T/l NEPTUNE
« Reply #24 on: November 26, 2009, 11:01:18 PM »
You can review and see where I was going with tracing the +12VDC signaling voltage from the Control Board down to the Left Hand lid lock and back up to the Control Board.  I was hoping gkofc Control Board is working it sounds like it is.  He is taking LCD display errors that indicate the Lid is not Locked and the Lid is Open.  Iím hoping he can measure +12VDC from the Control Board outputs down thru Lid Lock slide switch and the magnetically operated reed relay contacts (Lid is Closed/Lid is Open) back to the Control Board inputs for those functions.  His original problem was LCD was not lit and from what he described he had constant 120VAC from the Door Lock relay K9.  My DVM indicates that the Control Board bounces that relay contact to momentarily put 120VAC on the push/pull Lid Lock relay to actuate the Lid Lock to the locked state.  Same Control Board action for Door Unlock relay K10 to momentarily put 120VAC to the other field coil (push/pull) of the relay coil to open the Lid Lock.
 
gkofc had to pull the 14 pin machine wiring harness connector apart to get the Control Board/LCD display to come to life.   My recommendation is to prove the +12VDC supply is OK and then get the upper half of the machine to function as designed then move on to the issue of plugging in the main wiring harness to the lower part of the machine and troubleshoot why that action kills the Control Board/LCD display.   My WAG is the +12VDC supply is being pulled down when he plugs in the 14 pin harness connection by a possible faulty TDS.   +12VDC also feeds down to the pressure switch Low/Mid Level contacts.
Rich

Offline gkofc

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Re: Maytag T/l NEPTUNE
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2009, 10:42:12 AM »
Hello guys.I am NOT getting 12vdc at the P3 pins 3 & 4 with 14 pin block connected.I installed a new left hand lid lock and TDS to no avail.I checked the pressurte switch .The lid will now lock with the 14 pin connector  disconnected and shows 44 min left on cycle and a picture of agitation progress.As soon as i plug in 14 pin connector I get a blank screen.

Offline dh1200s

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Re: Maytag T/l NEPTUNE
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2009, 02:38:56 PM »
gkofc   

So the upper half of the machine is now good we have some progress?  You must have some heavy corrosion in that left lid lock.  Not sure why the right lock was not signaling the Control Board that the ďLid is LockedĒ  the Left and Right Lid is Locked contacts are in parallel in the wiring harness form those lid locks. 

Just to let you know the lid locks will take up to 4 to 5 minutes to unlock with that 14 pin plug pulled.  I would now follow Repair-man suggestion of disconnecting components 1 by 1.  I would continue to monitor +12VDC.  You do remove power to the machine before unplugging/replugging in any sub system components correct?

Do you have normal 120VAC input to the control board at Conn_P6 Pin 1 Line input and Neutral Pin 3 of that connector when you plug in the 14 Pin connector? 

Do you have normal 120VAC input to the motor controller when you plug in the 14 Pin connector?  See the pic I attached of the Motor Controller.  I'm just wondering if something goofey like the AC line condition filter is causing an issue under heavier load with the Lower harness plugged in.

One by one I would start by unplugging these items and see if +12VDC and the Control Board/LCD return to service with the 14 pin male/female plug connected in the Console.

1.   The TDS. I know you changed it.
2.   The Pressure Switch Plug At the pressure switch.
3.   120VAC input to the Motor Controller (donít see how that would factor in)
4.   JP4 On the Motor Controller (donít see how that would factor in)

If after that you still have no +12VDC on the Control Board and LCD is not active I would think we might have and lower wiring harness issue.  I would also invite other comments for support I may not be covering all possible issues related to this failure of service.       
Rich

Offline JWWebster

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Re: Maytag T/l NEPTUNE
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2009, 04:20:12 PM »
That pressure switch is ok but is the pressure tube clear? Is there sediment in the base of the tub?
May the hinges of our friendship
        never grow rusty.

About the icons: The beer is tip link, if a tech saves ya some money buy em a 6 pack. The small green square=personal message. The green dot is a link to my web page on appliance repair and other general BS I love to post. The letter sends me email.
I love fan letters! LOL

Offline dh1200s

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Re: Maytag T/l NEPTUNE
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2009, 05:38:27 PM »
Hi JWWebster,

gkofc can check the pressure switch transitions to see if they toggle for Low/Med and High fill.   Both my FAV6800Aís will transition from 0 to-1 Low/Med fill with about 3.5Ē of water in the wash tub when monitored in Service Mode.  See page 16 of the SM.  I transition to High Water level with about 7Ē of water in the tub.  He can then turn on the drain pump in Service Mode and pump out the wash tub. 

I believe we need to do what Repair-man stated for the lower machine harness and unplug each sub assembly now and watch for cause and effect.  If the last item is unplugged from the lower machine harness and we still kill the +12VDC at the Control Board and the Control Board/LCD is  dead then we have an issue with the harness. 

I did not mention unplugging the drain pump because I feel we are not killing 120VAC to the control Board.  I did ask gkofc to measure 120VAC at the Control Board input and the Motor Controller input with the 14 pin harness plugged in.   

Could we have a short in the lower harness killing +12VDC feed into the lower harness shutting down the Control Board?  A very interesting problem, hats off to gkofc for his effort.  Iím trying not to have my blinders on so please keep the troubleshooting ideas flowing.


Offline dh1200s

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Re: Maytag T/l NEPTUNE
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2009, 09:32:31 AM »
gkofc,

I have been looking at my test FAV6800A and I see no easy way to remove Pin 13B from the lower harness plug which is +12VDC down to the lower machine harness.    Iím looking at this because I feel you may still have loss of +12VDC when the lower Machine harness is plugged in to upper machine harness after you have  disconnected all plugs to devices in that lowering wiring harness i.e. the TDS, Pressure Switch, JP4 on the Motor Controller, the AC input to the Motor Controller, the Drain pump. 

As I mentioned earlier I do not feel this is a 120VAC issue.   If after disconnecting all devices hanging off that Lower Wiring harness you still have loss of +12VDC source from Conn_P3 pin 3 and the Control Board does not boot up/dark LCD.   I would look for a Lower Wiring harness issue a possible short of that +12VDC source in the Lower Wiring harness.     

I see no easy way to disconnect pin 13B in the Lower Machine Wiring harness in the Console to isolate +12VDC going down to the Lower Wiring harness.   This is what I did.   I removed Conn_P3 Pin 3 RD/WH wire which is the +12VDC source pin from that connector to the 14 Pin machine harness plug pinís 13A/13B as you will see on the schematic.  I was very careful to lift the retaining tab on the plug and remove the female pin from the connector then reseat Conn_P3 plug to the header pins on the Control Board.  With pin 3 removed +12VDC is isolated from the Lower Machine harness.  You would have no signaling voltage to the Low/Mid fill pressure switch contacts and no input voltage to the TDS. 

I hit the spin only key and the machine errored out after three attempts to redistribute the wash load with a uC error (continuous unbalance) because of no TDS input signaling to the Control Board.  The purpose of what Iím doing is to fault isolate a bit closer to primary fault location.   If isolating/removing the +12VDC source to the Lower Machine harness allowed your Control Board to boot up and the LCD displayed any machine status then it would be time to look at a Lower Wiring harness issue.  If it did not allow the Control Board to boot up/dark LCD then I would be at a loss as to what this issue is.
 
Good LuckÖ.Rich

 

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