Author Topic: When are the Manufacturer's going to wake up ?  (Read 3412 times)

Offline Icehouse

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When are the Manufacturer's going to wake up ?
« on: December 28, 2008, 05:58:27 PM »
After reading some posts, brings back memories of nightmares that you would think by now would change.
Yoder Loop leaking. God I remember in the early 70's Gibson used this method with steel tubing which is more prone to leaks.
Adaptive Defrost counts the number of door openings and closings.
Big deal Westinghouse had a ratcheting timer with an arm that was actuated by doors opening and closing. New technology my eye, just an electronic version of old techniques that did not fair too well.
GE, let's see at the 1964 World's Fair kept telling us about a whole new tomorrow today. Is that why they still used that "Japanese" timer that will not run if not mounted properly.
And who cannot forget the Washer/Drier combination machine that blew the fuses (pre-circuit breaker era) when the seals gave way.
And don't forget Frigidaire's nightmares. Pulse agitator in Washing Machines that tore more clothes then washed. The "Belt-Style" icemaker. And the best the juice dispenser refrigerators (more roaches then you could imagine got into that).
Guess I am getting old. :2funny: 
NATE, NCCER, PHCC,HVAC Certified Instructor
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Offline JWWebster

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Re: When are the Manufacturer's going to wake up ?
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2008, 08:50:45 PM »
Electronics in appliances to me is like a lighter factory inside a fireworks store.
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Offline Icehouse

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Re: When are the Manufacturer's going to wake up ?
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2008, 10:00:57 AM »
 :) Electronics are a good thing if done right and the manufacturer's train people. One of the prime examples of the 80's was "Kold Draft" ice machines who went electronic. Problem was at every seminar they held they were to busy pushing the sales approach and not proper servicing and they almost went out of business.
Also the various trade schools at least in these parts. Not one of the HVAC/R programs include electronics in their curriculum.  :(
NATE, NCCER, PHCC,HVAC Certified Instructor
Member RSES, US Army Refrigeration Specialist(Retired), Former Refrigeration Teacher NYC Board of Ed.
a tragedy has happen to me : http://web.me.com/zenzoidman/Bobice/

Offline JWWebster

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Re: When are the Manufacturer's going to wake up ?
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2008, 08:21:56 PM »
Old school methods are tried and true. The problem is the manufacturers cut so many corners the original design gets stepped on. Moving the jobs to other countrys to avoid environmental issues and wage wars has created a crappy world of messy electronics. I will give you a prime example. Enter : the wax motor.
May the hinges of our friendship
        never grow rusty.

About the icons: The beer is tip link, if a tech saves ya some money buy em a 6 pack. The small green square=personal message. The green dot is a link to my web page on appliance repair and other general BS I love to post. The letter sends me email.
I love fan letters! LOL

Offline qman

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Re: When are the Manufacturer's going to wake up ?
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2008, 12:32:26 PM »
What is a wax motor?  I've never heard of one.

Offline AJ

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Re: When are the Manufacturer's going to wake up ?
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2008, 01:05:21 PM »
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Offline shieldcracker

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Re: When are the Manufacturer's going to wake up ?
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2009, 06:02:04 PM »
Electronics are here to stay it is the way of the future-ahem the present.
I would not be surprised to see DC electronic commutated motors now that VFD are so widespread.

Offline Repair-man

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Re: When are the Manufacturer's going to wake up ?
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2009, 06:00:41 AM »
ECMs have been used for several years now already in Maytag, Samsung  and GE refrigerators, not sure about the others..


Ya'll seem obsessed about wax motors. Dang, it is and was a good idea...they just had the first design runs all wrong. If you'll remember, they made all those corrections years back.

Wax motors are still heavily used, especially in the dishwasher market.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2009, 04:13:43 PM by Repair-man »
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Offline Penguin45

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Re: When are the Manufacturer's going to wake up ?
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2009, 07:27:08 PM »
You've got to move with the times.....

I suspect that the rise of electronic control has little to do with efficiency or product improvement; it's all about time. Over here, until the mid '90s, our washers were all controlled by electro-mechanical timers, with up to 120 wires individually connected to the terminals (Nightmare if you dropped a stitch changing one...). The expensive bit of building an appliance is people, so to go from paying an operative to sit at a bench connecting 120 wires (The girls at Hoover could do 5 an hour apparently - remarkable!) to snapping on two or three edge connectors offers speed and little skill (no training or concentration required). As the electronics took over, the economies of scale take over as well, to a degree that the electronics are now far cheaper than an electro-mechanical timer.

Then there is the psychological bit in the after-sales/service. "It's a computer board, therefore it's expensive", is a public perception blatantly played upon by the European manufacturers. Lots of 100+ pcbs over here (plus tax) - we know for a fact that most cost between 8-12 from the factory, so even with trade discount from the wholesalers, we still get screwed on purchase costs, therefore so does the customer. Not sensible in a climate calling for us to make stuff last longer.

I can claim little experience of your American products, but following the forums, I notice that you have the "Askoll" or magnetic pump coming to prominence. However, your parts people only seem to sell complete pump assemblies. Over here, most of us carry a selection of motors, which will fit 95% of appliances and cost between 3.50 and 8.00! Our manufacturers usually want 20-40 (or more!) for the complete assembly. This can mean the difference between an appliance being scrapped or repaired. It also means that the customer pays less and as a repairer, I'll make a larger profit on a cheaper sale. Everybody wins......

Sorry, pet hobby horse, I'll get off now.

Penguin45.

Offline Repair-man

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Re: When are the Manufacturer's going to wake up ?
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2009, 05:46:44 AM »
Not surprising about the pumps. Our greedy manufacturers do not want us to have the cheaper repair parts...they force us to replace the entire assembly. This has alway been a rip-off in my opinion.  Wish you'd send me a couple dozen of those :)
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