Author Topic: 1992 model NPADE29AB03 Tempstar(mfd. by ICP) shutting down  (Read 3212 times)

Offline thatsnotwhatyurmothersaid

  • VIP Member
  • Member Since: Jul 2014
  • Posts: 23
1992 model NPADE29AB03 Tempstar(mfd. by ICP) shutting down
« on: August 08, 2014, 02:52:12 PM »
This is our home unit, and was installed when we moved here 9 years ago. Although I am not 100% certain about ICP being the manufacturer, it is what I was told on another appliance repair website, while looking up a part.

Perhaps 6 or 8 times a week, give or take, the unit will just stop running. Most of the time, we are more than likely in the living room, watching TV, and will not hear the shutoff, (there is a small, audible sound of rushing air while running). When, after a few minutes, we feel the temperature has risen in the room, I look at the thermostat to be sure, and then must go outside, where the panel box with the A/C breaker is, and flip it off and back on again, (IT IS NEVER TRIPPED), and the unit will start running again.

First, we thought that it may be a bad breaker, and replaced it. Wrong. Then, we decided to replace the thermostat. It was old, and a cheap brand, so we put in a decent, programmable Honeywell. Wrong again.

Since then, I've been looking online, and have seen that the next, most likely cause, could be the capacitor. I have a cheap meter that doesn't measure capacitance, but found, (online), a method that utilizes a meter like mine to determine if the capacitor is bad or not. Here's where it gets "interesting". I've seen 3 or 4 repair videos online, and they ALL show bad capacitors as having their tops bulged up, (convex, like a can of vegetables that's spoiled). Mine is not like that. I took a second, closer look, and I see a single, small spot, about the size of your fingernail, raised up along the outside edge, on it's top. I have also learned that one may see an oily substance running down the side of the capacitor, if it is defective. There is none on mine. Another visual inspection may perhaps reveal accumulated rust on the terminals. Again, there is none on mine.

As of yet, I haven't taken the capacitor off, discharged it, (I'm told, by breaching the terminals with an insulated handle screwdriver), and performing this test.

Set your meter on a high resistance setting, touch leads to "fan", and "C" terminals, then across "herm", and "C", and watch for the meter needle to move or not, into a certain position. I'll have to read this procedure again to be sure what I should be looking for, that is supposed to tell me whether the capacitor is bad or not. Again, if this test doesn't show the capacitor is bad, from what I have learned, my next step is determining if the contactor is bad. I will also need to go over the instructions for this test again, as well.

Can I cut off the power to the unit,(breaker off), and discharge the capacitor with wires still connected, or must I disconnect the capacitor from the unit, and discharge it then? If I have to take the capacitor off first, and find there is nothing wrong with it, is there something that I must do to "recharge" it before I connect it back up to the unit?

If I get to this point, and am ready to test the contactor, what is the correct procedure to perform this test, with, of course, SAFETY coming first? Sorry for the excessively long-winded post. I thought it best to fully explain the problem, along with possible solutions that I have discovered, so that someone could tell me "which way is left and which is right", so to speak.

Thanks in advance for ANY HELP AT ALL that some of you good people here can provide. This is not my first visit, and query here. I am happy to say that my previous inquiry(ies) here achieved success, and I am confident that some of you are knowledgeable enough to "keep my streak alive". I appreciate everyone "listening".   

Tommy   

Offline thatsnotwhatyurmothersaid

  • VIP Member
  • Member Since: Jul 2014
  • Posts: 23
Re: 1992 model NPADE29AB03 Tempstar(mfd. by ICP) shutting down
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2014, 09:22:48 AM »
This will be a much shorter post than my previous one above, as I have learned some things since then.

It looks like my dual run capacitor is OK. No top swelled, no oily residue along the sides; voltage, amperage and capacitance values read and calculated on target. I have found another capacitor mounted on top of a blower wheel housing, on the opposite side of the unit. It is smaller than the first, and rusted badly, so any information about it is gone. I need to determine it's values, (I'd like to also know it's purpose, AND what it is called, (proper name)). I intend to replace it for obvious reasons.

I have looked at the contactor, and can only see ONE set of contacts. Although the voltages read correctly across all terminals, the contacts are rounded off at the tips, and obviously burned. This says to me that replacing it as well, is a good idea. I've yet to find any numbers on it, so I'll need to SOMEHOW find the correct replacement part. I've been searching EVERYWHERE, online and otherwise, with NO SUCCESS whatsoever, in matching the units' model # to ANY OTHER unit I can find, period.

As if this all weren't enough of a headache, I've now been awakened to another problem. Every so often, when the set temperature is reached, and the A/C is supposed to shut off, it keeps running, allowing the environment continue to get colder. I have only witnessed this twice, but my wife has told me that she has seen this happen several times. The ONLY way to stop it when this anomaly occurs, is to shut the circuit breaker off. It must remain off for a few minutes, and if all goes well, when I flip the breaker back on, the unit will stay off until it is called to come on again. I've had a similar problem before with our well pump, and the cause turned out to be that the contacts on its' pressure switch were sticking, not coming apart when they were supposed to, and allowing the pump to continue running. This leads me to believe that the root of THIS PROBLEM with the A/C, is also the contactor. 

Just for argument's sake, another person on another forum site had asked me if there was anything out of the ordinary happening, i. e., audible sounds of any kind, inside or out, etc. There is nothing like that happening, although, on a hot day, (we've PLENTY here), the unit CANNOT get the inside temp down to where we have it set, and just keeps working its' butt off to try and get the temp down. Since it is 22 years old, I'm CERTAIN that its' efficiency % has dropped to a point. I have been wondering if whether recharging the freon would help.

Does ANYONE have any insights, explanations, or any advice at all? This situation is fast approaching the critical stage. My disabled wife has severe breathing problems, and if the A/C does NOT operate on a remotely normal basis, or, God forbid, at all, I will be rushing her to the hospital within hours. So far, we've indeed been lucky. That streak is sure to run out sooner rather than later.

I would be eternally grateful if there were anyone here that could tell me if I am taking the correct and necessary steps to remedy our A/C problem(s), and offer any suggestions or expert, (so to speak) advice.

I must again apologize...this time, for lying. I said that this post wasn't going to be as long as the other!! VERY SORRY. PLEASE, if you know anything about this unit, its' repair procedures and/or parts, or maybe how to even find the thing somewhere on the web, PLEASE reply. Thanks very much.

Tommy AKA thatsnotwhatyurmothersaid      ??? :tickedoff:
« Last Edit: August 27, 2014, 09:26:31 AM by thatsnotwhatyurmothersaid »

Offline tch_tech

  • Technician
  • Member Since: May 2009
  • Posts: 85
  • Country: us
Re: 1992 model NPADE29AB03 Tempstar(mfd. by ICP) shutting down
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2014, 11:28:38 PM »
It sounds most likely that you have a flakey contactor. Pull the power disconnect or cycle OFF the breaker before changing. This is 240VAC you will be working around.

Also, the best way to check a capacitor is with a DVOM with capacitance function.  Borrow one or buy an inexpensive one from Sears or Harbor Freight.

Post again if you have additional questions.

Offline thatsnotwhatyurmothersaid

  • VIP Member
  • Member Since: Jul 2014
  • Posts: 23
Re: 1992 model NPADE29AB03 Tempstar(mfd. by ICP) shutting down
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2014, 01:50:04 AM »
Here is a photo of my Honeywell A/C contactor. The unit itself is a 1992 model Tempstar, so I do not know if the contactor was installed by Tempstar at manufacture, or if someone had already replaced the original equipment.

As seen, L1, L2 and T1, T2 are plainly visible, but not labeled in any way. At the far left, the two terminals seen with yellow wires would be the 24V control wires. And also plainly visible, are the single set of contacts, burned very badly. This alone, tells me that the contactor needs to be replaced, even though testing across all normal terminal pairs, including the low voltage wires, they all test on target, with the contactor plunger pulled in, (unit running): 240VAC across L1 / L2, the same across T1 / T2, and 24VAC across the low voltage control terminals.

I did remove the contactor from its' mount, and wrote down ALL the numbers / letters that were on it. I even used a magnifying glass to try and get these #'s correct, to the best of my ability. If I read them right, number / letter combinations were: 28242A-1235, and W01050839HW. I am 90-95% sure that these are correctly read by me. I also thought that the zeros might be the letter "O", punched in that variation and searched, returning zero results.

I even called Honeywell tech support, gave THEM the numbers, and they could not find a match. I will try your numbers now, and see if something pops up. I'll post again later.

Tommy


                           

Offline rpkeach

  • Technician
  • Member Since: Mar 2012
  • Posts: 20
  • Country: us
  • Service tech since 1986
    • Buy me a beer through paypal
Re: 1992 model NPADE29AB03 Tempstar(mfd. by ICP) shutting down
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2014, 11:07:15 AM »
the contactor is definitly bad and probably the root of your issues. You should be able to find one at any appliance or hvac supply house. Thd smaller cap you found is for your blower motor and even rusty should be fine. Replace it if you want, the specs should be on the motor tag. the contactor needs replacing before anything else can be looked at properly. I think once thats done you will have no other issues. I hope this helps.
Ralph

Offline tch_tech

  • Technician
  • Member Since: May 2009
  • Posts: 85
  • Country: us
Re: 1992 model NPADE29AB03 Tempstar(mfd. by ICP) shutting down
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2014, 12:59:42 PM »
Try: Packard C140A. Google it, comes right up.

Single pole. 240VAC, 40FLA (full load amps), 24VAC coil.

It does not have to be the exact OEM contactor. They all function the same. Ensure it is replaced with same configuration (amp rating, number of poles, coil voltage, etc).  The Packard will work. But the 24vac tstat wires will go on each side of coil, not both on one side as yours is now.

MARS is another hvac component manufacurer.

Offline tch_tech

  • Technician
  • Member Since: May 2009
  • Posts: 85
  • Country: us
Re: 1992 model NPADE29AB03 Tempstar(mfd. by ICP) shutting down
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2014, 01:04:17 PM »
Remember to pull the disconnent or cycle breaker off before changing.

Mark each wire before removing and take pictures so you rewire the new contactor correctly.

Offline thatsnotwhatyurmothersaid

  • VIP Member
  • Member Since: Jul 2014
  • Posts: 23
Re: 1992 model NPADE29AB03 Tempstar(mfd. by ICP) shutting down
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2014, 07:19:22 AM »
Let me start by asking this: if the two 24v coil wires are connected to the same side of the contactor by mistake, and the 240v is applied, will that burn up the coil, or otherwise harm or disable the contactor? I did this with the new Packard, but soon corrected the error. The unit did not start up. Did I correct my mistake too late? Am I to blame for the contactors' NOT WORKING?

This has now turned into a DIRE EMERGENCY! PLEASE read on, and if anyone can contribute assistance of ANY KIND, PLEASE reply or PM me, as soon as you can! I cannot stress enough how vital this is, that I get this A / C unit running the way it is supposed to run.

 I bought a new contactor, a Packard universal. I didn't see the "no returns on electrical parts" sign, but found this out later when I tried to do that very thing. So, either way, I'm out 27 bucks...PLUS gas and travel time, 45 minutes each way.

My unit was running when I started to install the new part, so I cut the power first. The L1 / L2 wires had forks on the ends, that would not fit in the new contactor, so I just squeezed then with pliers, and took them off, exposing just the naked wire end. This was the ONLY thing I changed.

Referring to my photo of the old contactor, I hooked up all of the wires accordingly, but had to put L1 / L2 bare ends, behind the aluminum screw-in @ the front of the contactor, turned the unit back on at the breaker, and nothing. Just MY luck.

Reading all of the voltages, (unit energized, but not running) yielded the following: L1 / L2, 0 vac; T1 /T2, 240 vac, and zero vac at the low (24v) voltage coil wires. Here is where I was left scratching my head...L1 / T1, 240v; L1 / T2, 0v. Then, L2 / T1, 240v; L2 / T2, 0v, with 0v at the 24v terminals.

It was VERY hot and humid, so it didn't take but a few minutes for the inside temp to rise to 80*F. I HAD TO do something, because my wife's health issues demanded it. I took a small sliver of a zip tie, and jammed it in at the plunger contacts, making the unit start, but obviously, I couldn't leave it running continuously. SO, when the temp lowered to our usual setting, I just cut the power, leaving the jury rigged contactor as is, and as of this minute, (Thursday, 9/4; 6:30am) I'm still just flipping the breaker on and off as needed to regulate the inside temperature.

With the unit running, voltage readings were: L1 / L2, 240 vac; T1 / T2, 240 vac, and again, 0 volts at the coil (24v) wires. Previously, I had read those OTHER, "criss-cross" voltages just out of curiosity, and did not check them here.

HELLLPP! What is going on with this thing?? Reading zero @ the 24v wires, both, while the unit is energized / not running, AND WHILE RUNNING, leads me to believe that, (A), this was a defective contactor at time of purchase, OR (B), when power was applied, something went awry, and perhaps blew the coil. ?????

PLEASE hurry. I IMPLORE ANYONE to reply, maybe with some answers. I'm not certain if I'm going to have to BUY ANOTHER contactor...or if there is a solution here without having to do that, (I REALLY can't afford that), but if I have to, I'll have no choice. I just need to get this figured out VERY QUICKLY...my wife, (nor I, for that matter) can't do without the A/C, and I sure as heck can't keep cutting the power off and on, while I have the contactor plunger stuck shut.

Offline dab147315

  • Technician
  • Member Since: Oct 2010
  • Posts: 1495
  • Country: us
Re: 1992 model NPADE29AB03 Tempstar(mfd. by ICP) shutting down
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2014, 08:01:54 AM »
Sounds like you blew the transformer that maybe by the evaporator fan motor in attic or where ever the fan is that blows air threw duct work.It converts 120 volts a/c to 24volts a/c.May look something like this.
http://www.repairclinic.com/PartDetail/Transformer/0130M00140/2935027
« Last Edit: September 04, 2014, 08:06:24 AM by dab147315 »

Offline dab147315

  • Technician
  • Member Since: Oct 2010
  • Posts: 1495
  • Country: us
Re: 1992 model NPADE29AB03 Tempstar(mfd. by ICP) shutting down
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2014, 08:13:05 AM »
How to check transformer.

Offline dab147315

  • Technician
  • Member Since: Oct 2010
  • Posts: 1495
  • Country: us
Re: 1992 model NPADE29AB03 Tempstar(mfd. by ICP) shutting down
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2014, 09:11:06 AM »
Also they make a transformer that has a reset button on it so if you miss wire it or the 24 volt a/c circuit had a short in it you could just reset it.They do cost more money and also you must know what supply voltage is off the old transformer.Like 120 ,208, or 240 volts.Your going to need meter and find the transformer wherever that maybe and diagnostic it to be bad.Your post says you have know 24 volts.So you have to find that transformer.Good luck.

Offline tch_tech

  • Technician
  • Member Since: May 2009
  • Posts: 85
  • Country: us
Re: 1992 model NPADE29AB03 Tempstar(mfd. by ICP) shutting down
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2014, 10:50:19 PM »
I would also check the two 24vac tstat wires that hook up to the contactor. You said it is a 1992 unit, so at 24 years old, the wire insulation is probably very dry and brittle.  Ensure the wires are not shorted together in the entire run of wire that you can see. Perhaps when handling the wires while changing out the contactor, the wires got shorted together.

And are you sure the thermostat is "ON" and the temp is set low enough for a call for cooling?

Offline thatsnotwhatyurmothersaid

  • VIP Member
  • Member Since: Jul 2014
  • Posts: 23
Re: 1992 model NPADE29AB03 Tempstar(mfd. by ICP) shutting down
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2014, 12:43:04 AM »
There is no short in any of the 24v wires, at least that is visible to the naked eye. Yes, the tstat is on, and all of our temp preferences are programmed into it. It is new, and has only been installed around a month. Another forum member had replied, and had also posted what I think is a video on how to check the transformer, but I have had some long standing issues with my player that are, for the time being, remain unresolved. So, at the moment, I can't view whatever he posted. All I have been able to determine is that there 2 wires in, and 2 out. That looks simple enough on the surface, but I'm sure there's more to it. I just don't know how to test, and see if it is bad. During the day here, it is very hot and humid. ANYTHING I do to the unit means I must first cut the power, so I have to be very quick about what I do, because we live in a mobile home that is outdated, and the temp inside rises extremely fast. In a matter of 15 or 20 minutes, it can climb to 80*F or more, which makes it stifling, and nearly unbearable.

I'm thinking that the transformer is where I should start further troubleshooting, and for now, and until I get it fixed, the contactor's plunger is being held in the closed, (run) position by a sliver of a zip tie...stuck in there by me, and flipping the breaker on and off is the only recourse I have. The transformer is mounted immediately beside the contactor, and I have found no fuse inline anywhere.

Offline thatsnotwhatyurmothersaid

  • VIP Member
  • Member Since: Jul 2014
  • Posts: 23
Re: 1992 model NPADE29AB03 Tempstar(mfd. by ICP) shutting down
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2014, 01:17:37 AM »
FOLLOW-UP TO MY LAST POST: A few minutes ago, I was able to view the video previously posted for me by dab147315, using my smartphone. I will be checking the transformer later today, and will return and post my findings ASAP. However, due to SEVERE lack of sleep, that post may not go up until late in the afternoon. THANKS, EVERYONE, FOR THE REPLIES WITH HELP. I AM IN YOUR DEBT.

Offline tch_tech

  • Technician
  • Member Since: May 2009
  • Posts: 85
  • Country: us
Re: 1992 model NPADE29AB03 Tempstar(mfd. by ICP) shutting down
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2014, 02:01:04 PM »
Can you take a picture of the wiring diagram (should be on one of the panel covers on outside condenser unit) and post it here? Explaining how to test your particular transformer(voltages) will be fairly simple if you can post this.

 

Tempstar Heat Pump not running but Air handler is

Started by lgmccoy1

Replies: 4
Views: 6009
Last post November 19, 2010, 06:16:05 AM
by jumptrout51
Tempstar heat pump won't initiate defrost cycle

Started by lgmccoy1

Replies: 13
Views: 9818
Last post December 24, 2010, 12:53:31 PM
by jumptrout51
Aprilaire humidifier with model 60 digital control question

Started by jrudyjr

Replies: 8
Views: 3756
Last post March 16, 2012, 02:52:52 AM
by ApplianceGuru
Lennox HVAC Model G40UX - Blower Not Running

Started by jsbzb

Replies: 12
Views: 5958
Last post June 28, 2012, 10:07:16 PM
by JWWebster
Whirlpool Window Air Conditioner Model Number ACQ189XP0

Started by iLady

Replies: 4
Views: 2798
Last post August 01, 2012, 07:12:25 AM
by jumptrout51
Rheem Heat pump model RPMC-048JAZ

Started by jdman

Replies: 2
Views: 2683
Last post November 07, 2012, 12:26:21 PM
by jimbo6679